Some Suggestions

Ask BFME: Reforged a question here or via email.

Moderator: Solethria

User avatar
Lostir
Posts: 204

Re: Some Suggestions

Post by Lostir » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:24 am

Ram riders weren't even in the movies just the extended.

Concerning the strategies seen in the Hobbit there was a lot of nonesese. And it was in no way comparable to the ones in LotR, mainly because it was forst filmed and then planned (as far as I know). Therefore most of it just makes no sense. We got no overview how the fight is going or any other meaningful information besides small meaningless skirmishes.
And just a couple of things that made no sense:
-Wereworms
-Azog's command banner
-the attack on Dale
-elves jumping the dwarven shieldwall
-dwarves rushing in instead of keeping their shieldwall
-ram riders charging the elves in the extended version
Besides inconsistencies like the troll charge against the Erebor gate.

But enough of that and feel free to disagree.

Now concering the axes of considerations when adding a new unit to the game:
1. The concept ifself
Of course being somewhat based on lore(books/movies) is important, but it isn't a reason for just adding things to add them.
It is the same argument as, wether to give Aragorn a bow, because he used it in the movies.
There is a lot more to it.
1 a) The lore background which you explained already and with which I wouldn't really disagree.

b) A lot more important than the lore is the place in the faction. In which way does a unit interact with the rest of the faction? How does it improve the gameplay of the faction.
Battlewagons and normal Cavalry have completlty different roles in a faction and exchanging those could have a huge impact on them.

c) How does the unit make the faction different from other factions? Another important point because factions shouldn't just be reskins of each other, but each offer unique different gameplay.

2 The balance. A lot of things can be balanced even if it is more work. So I would say the balance comes after the initial concept.

3. Agree on that too. There are some things fundamental to BfME and those shouldn't be removed. Identifying those though isn't easy.


Just out of interest, would you also argue to remove the dwarven Axe-Fighters and replace them with Sword-Fighters as seen in the movie?

Feanor
Posts: 7

Re: Some Suggestions

Post by Feanor » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:54 am

Just out of interest, would you also argue to remove the dwarven Axe-Fighters and replace them with Sword-Fighters as seen in the movie?
I don't think that's necessary. Gimli was introduced in the books from the very beginning as an axe wilder fighter. So axes fit the dwarven lore perfectly. What doesn't work for me is the BattleWagons as cavalry. BFME (and BFME 2) earlygame is a rock-scissors-paper game in which spearman counter cavalry, cavalry counters swordsmen, and swordsmen counter spearmen. I don't see the point of dwarves needing a "different cavalry" because "there are already many of those" (riders), then you would have to scrap the whole "spearman-swordsman-cavalry-archers" model, If you want uniqueness. If I remember well, factions also have an elite archer unit.
That's one thing I never liked of BFME, I would prefer factions to be more different, like the ones from starcraft 2 or warcraft 3. But given that BFME plays around that R-S-P game in which cavalry plays a key role, I think the Ram Riders fit better in that concept.
I'm not saying to scrap the Battle wagons, I think they could be redesigned to a more late-game unit like the Mummakil, where you had 1 battlewagon pulled by 4-6 rams rams and it had a lot of HP and could trample a lot of units.

User avatar
Lostir
Posts: 204

Re: Some Suggestions

Post by Lostir » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:16 pm

For me Battle-Wagons were never really a classic cavalry unit. They are a strong support unit with Banner/Hearth to support the slow dwarves in battle. And thanks to their cask-toss, they can deal good AoE damage against units or buildings.

I don't think dwarves really need a cavalry unit, but if ram-riders are included I would see them the opposite way around, a really late game cavalry unit, which deals good trample damage but is quite tanky and slower than other cavalry.
Battlewagons becoming more supporty wouldn't be something I'm opposed to either.

And yes I'm a really huge fan of uniqueness between factions and inside factions, one of the reasons, why I prefer BfME1 gameplay, where they managed to make every faction a lot more unique compared to BfME2.

Post Reply