The hobbit hero's/champions

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Tycho
Posts: 9

The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by Tycho » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:38 am

What are people's opinions on having some of the hobbit characters into the game?

The Dwarves:
Balin, Dwalin, Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Dori, Nori, Ori, Fili, Kili, Oin, Gloin (Already in game if I recall correctly), Thorin

The Humans:
Bard

The Orcs:
Azog, Bolg

The Goblins:
Goblin King

I think it would be incredible fun to see thorin with an oakshield running around. And Maybe there can even be a Tom, Bert & William (For those who do not know them). They are the three trolls that try to eat the dwarves in the hobbit. Or even better Beorn (The Human that can transform into a bear (The druid).

Note: I do not say "These hero's MUST be a part of the game!" All I am simply saying is:) "What do you guys THINK of it if they were implented in the game"

I personally think it can be great fun and viabillity to see these characters in the game, however my opinion alone isn't enough :D :D

Kumquatwhat
Posts: 7
Location: United States

Re: The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by Kumquatwhat » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:57 pm

I don't know how I feel about it in principal, but for the sake of developing it into the best proposal I feel like it can be:

I feel like this badly weighs the scale of heroes in favour of the Dwarves. BFME2 already had a serious issue with some factions having way too many heroes and others having almost none, and this does the same, but worse because most of the new heroes are pretty much identical? But at the same time it adds heroes to two factions that were definitely lacking in heroes. It's just an over-correction.

So maybe just take the leaders, or most notable characters? Because, like I said, the Dwarves are light on heroes otherwise. So perhaps:
  • Dwarves: Thorin, Balin, Gloin, Bilbo, Bard*
  • Goblins: Azog, Bolg
I don't, for what it's worth, think the Goblin King really works as a hero. Even knowing the Goblins need more heroes from a gameplay perspective, it just doesn't feel right. Book or movie, he appears for almost no time, does almost nothing, and has no lore. He doesn't even have a name. Ditto the three cave trolls, who I would pass on.

As far as alternate solutions for the rest of the Hobbit crew, I would say to make it a power, and a fairly high tier one since it would be giving you almost a dozen heroes (albeit all on the weaker end).

*If, as I am a proponent of in another thread, that Inns are changed to offer a map specific hero rather than a unique unit type, I would say that Bard and Beorn both make more sense in this role than as regularly recruitable heroes. And I do like them in that role, but I don't think they make much as much sense attached to a faction in all roles.

Tycho
Posts: 9

Re: The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by Tycho » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:01 pm

I get what you're saying about the dwarves:) to get the entire dwarf fellowship into the game gives the dwarves atleast 12 hero's which I agree, is way to much!


(im just thinking out loud atm) It can be fun to see thorin, balin and gloin and maybe thorin can summon the other dwarves for a very short period of time or something....I mean fili and kili quite had the appereance in the hobbit. especially killi regarding the entire romance story of tauriel. Speaking of wich can also be a great hero haha so if we make a combined list from your opinion and my opinion

New hero list:
Dwarves = Thorin, Balin, Gloin
(Dwarves get 3 hero's due to being low on hero's)

Humans = Bard
(He does make an appareance and he leads the humans into battle...so in my opinion he is sort of a hero)

Elves = Tauriel
(new elf introduced kinda obvious in my point of view)

Orcs = Azog, Bolg
(New commanders of orc army of gundabad)

Goblins = .... (No goblin king)
Kinda hard since the goblins dont really have any hero's...

Extra:
Beorn (Summonable)

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Lostir
Posts: 226

Re: The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by Lostir » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:27 am

Dwarves being low on heroes is already pretty well balanced out by the dwarven heroes being really tanky.
And there is the question wether it is weird to have Thorin and Gimli fighting side by side, even if Gimli was still a child, when Thorin was still alife.

I'd really make Thorin and Company a cool spellbook power.

Bard doesn't fit into the humans either from a timeline. It should be rather Brand his grandson, which should be added, who was the king of Dale and also a hero in RotWk.
Moreover there are other heroes for Men that I find more important like Imrahil, or Halbarad.

The same for Elves. With far more important characters missing as regular playable characters like Celeborn, Cirdan and Galadriel, I don't see space left for Tauriel.

I'd much rather have Bolg than Azog as a hero for goblins, because Azog was long dead even at the events of the Hobbit. But both were dead at the War of the Ring.
Either give them just titles like "The Goblin King", "The Great Goblin", "The Gundabad Chieftain" showing that the actual orc is replacable, and leaders often change, or make up names.

MakeBFMEGreatAgain
Posts: 8

Re: The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by MakeBFMEGreatAgain » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:48 am

I strongly support Lostir opinion.

The Hobbit trilogy had some cool stuff. However I'm pretty sure that the team agrees that Tauriel romance was not part of it.

Tycho
Posts: 9

Re: The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by Tycho » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:35 am

I do get the point about specific timelines being an obstacle and I can understand that it will cause many weird looks if thorin and gimli are side by side.

I do like to note I never said that the romance in the hobbit was a cool part of it. All I stated was that due too the side story kili has been an noticeable dwarf so therefore it could be implented as a notice able character

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Lostir
Posts: 226

Re: The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by Lostir » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:38 pm

It's quite a difficult question. Not having Gimli is pretty much a nogo because he is basically the "Tolkien-Dwarf". But not having Thorin who is a main character of the Hobbit movies isn't that great either.

Probably a mix of characters would make the most sense in a way that as many characters as possible were alife during both meaning: Thorin, Gimli, Balin, Dwalin, Gloin, Dain. And Thorin can summon Fili and Kili as a spell, such that both of them will be there too.

Kumquatwhat
Posts: 7
Location: United States

Re: The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by Kumquatwhat » Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:28 pm

Lostir wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:38 pm
Not having Gimli
Oh, so for my part, at no point did I assume this meant Hobbit exclusive. I thought this would be on top of the normal heroes. Gimli, Dain, et al plus these guys.

I would definitely just say have them be side by side. It's weird, but the most acceptable solution that includes Hobbit by far. I'd just roll with it for the same reason we all enjoy having Angmarim heroes fight Gimli and Boromir and all.

Re Tauriel, I'm not really pro-inclusion imo, I'd leave her off. Elves have enough heroes that unless they get split into factions (which I'm...not inherently against, but that'd be a separate thread) they don't need Tauriel to pad their numbers. And she isn't compelling enough or central enough and doesn't meet enough of a niche on her own to merit inclusion anyway.

But I also didn't care for her in the films, so maybe I'm biased? I'll let you all decide.

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Lostir
Posts: 226

Re: The hobbit hero's/champions

Post by Lostir » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:58 pm

The one talking about the heroes being exclusive was me, because of it being weird if characters which weren't alife/active at the same times, are playable together.
It's weird, but the most acceptable solution that includes Hobbit by far.
Agree
But I also didn't care for her in the films, so maybe I'm biased? I'll let you all decide.
I really liked Tauriel in the movies and think she was a great addition. (Except the love story. Let's just all pretend that didn't ever exist). I thought the concept of female Mirkwood elves being part of the military force was a great addition and a further distinction between the different elven realms. And Tauriel was a great representation of the principle that anyone could become a captain of the guard if they were good enough. Also she was a nice anti-thesis to Thranduil.

But elves already have enough heroes and there are more important ones that aren't even there.

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