Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

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TheGardOfIsen
Posts: 5

Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

Post by TheGardOfIsen » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:33 pm

I was wondering whether the natural structures would exist in the game. I would like to see them in the game but maybe slightly tweaked as some where either pointless or not to influential at stages of the game.

Marketplaces i think are nice as its a good resource boost early game but perhaps they can be upgraded with things like increased production or maybe offering command points.

Inns i don't like the idea of offering special units i will explain why when i get to the beacons. I would like to see them as a sought of camp in a sense that it heals units (offering a larger use to evil factions) offers maybe a leader ship bonus and an arrow tower or two perhaps. I think a nice idea would be that you could place units inside and after say 30 secs to 1m they leave with upgrades or one random upgrade. Again they could be upgraded to have a greater use later game.

Beacons!!! In the lotr universe beacons where used as a way to call for reinforcements. In the edain mod for bfme 2 they periodically call in 1 or 2 units. The idea was good but i think it would be much more nostalgic if they called in much greater armies specific to the factions that light it. They are a one time use building and once captured offers they player to call in reinforcements for a high amount of resources and command points so ideally used for when a player is in need of aid mid-late game. Once this is paid, a flag appears in the top left of whatever faction the reinforcements are from with a timer attached (10m maybe) the player then clicks the flag and almost a cut scene plays and the army arrives. Just like in bfme 1 campaign. I think this would be good because each time a major army of reinforcments arrives an epic speech or piece of music plays; Theodens Speech, Dains Speech, Haradrim horn and chants, last alliance sound track, Azogs war cry and horns, Isengard never really had reinforcemnts but they have pretty epic music so yeah i guess that would be pretty cool. Here is what i propose for these reinforcements:

Mordor: Haradrim and mumakil.

Dwarves: Iron hills armies (king dain and ram riders etc. from the battle of the five armies) or elves.

Isengard: Mordor or dunland i guess.

Men: Could Get Either Rohirrim or temporary army of the dead and permanent legolas gimli and aragorn if not already present.

Elves: Dwarves or maybe men from the last alliance and elendil isildur etc.

Goblins/Wild: maybe gundabad orcs and bats also bolg if there was a plan to add him that should be how hes summoned
in my opinion.

Angmar?: if Angmar is added i dont have many ideas but i think men of Rhudaur possibly.

Docks: I dont really care what you do with docks i was never a fan of naval warfare.

Overall i think these buildings can have a much bigger part of the game and also adds a sense of a secondary objective rather than just obliterate your opponent. Also the reinforcements allow extra heroes and units that would be otherwise unavailable for the corresponding faction. Obviously would take a long time to add in and I'm thinking for the far future. Thank you to the bfme reforged team I cannot wait take as much time as you need to make the game amazing.

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Lostir
Posts: 236

Re: Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

Post by Lostir » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:39 am

I'm a big fan of those points of interest on the map that are worth fighting for.
But would you really remove Hobbits as a buildable unit?

TheGardOfIsen
Posts: 5

Re: Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

Post by TheGardOfIsen » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:50 pm

Lostir wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:39 am
I'm a big fan of those points of interest on the map that are worth fighting for.
But would you really remove Hobbits as a buildable unit?
I mean as much as i love trying to beat a brutal ai with only hobbits i think that there are much better uses for the structures.

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WerewolfMoonHunter
Posts: 114
Location: Poland

Re: Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

Post by WerewolfMoonHunter » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:32 am

Well... I must say that some of your ideas ar good but... if you don't mind, I will show here some of mine ideas.

1. Marketplace (at first I had a problem to recognize which building it was, becouse in Polish it was called "Posterunek" what means "Outpost")- I agree that it function in oryginal game was small and it was mostly useless. So giving it this upgreads which you said would be a good idea.

2.Inns- here I must disagree with you. I mean okay, you have a point that special units from the inns isn't the most logical thing in game but I also like when units go out from inn. So I propuse small changes here. One, adding to that possibility to recruit special hero from the inn (I even started working at ideas for them). Two, still recruting new units from the inn but... it should be like units which you really would find in the inn.

1. Men of the West- Dunedains

2. Elves- Hobbits

3. Dwarfs- Men from Dale or some kind of dwarf sellswords

4. Mordor- Corsairs from Umbar

5. Isengard- Bandits or Wild People from Dunland

6. Goblins- Bandits

7. Angmar- Black Numenorian or Traitors from Arnor


3. Beacons- I agree that thei could be more usefull. And I agree with your idea. Like when you control a beacon, two random units of your fraction will appear near it to help you.

TheGardOfIsen
Posts: 5

Re: Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

Post by TheGardOfIsen » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:22 pm

WerewolfMoonHunter wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:32 am
Well... I must say that some of your ideas ar good but... if you don't mind, I will show here some of mine ideas.

1. Marketplace (at first I had a problem to recognize which building it was, becouse in Polish it was called "Posterunek" what means "Outpost")- I agree that it function in oryginal game was small and it was mostly useless. So giving it this upgreads which you said would be a good idea.

2.Inns- here I must disagree with you. I mean okay, you have a point that special units from the inns isn't the most logical thing in game but I also like when units go out from inn. So I propuse small changes here. One, adding to that possibility to recruit special hero from the inn (I even started working at ideas for them). Two, still recruting new units from the inn but... it should be like units which you really would find in the inn.

1. Men of the West- Dunedains

2. Elves- Hobbits

3. Dwarfs- Men from Dale or some kind of dwarf sellswords

4. Mordor- Corsairs from Umbar

5. Isengard- Bandits or Wild People from Dunland

6. Goblins- Bandits

7. Angmar- Black Numenorian or Traitors from Arnor


3. Beacons- I agree that thei could be more usefull. And I agree with your idea. Like when you control a beacon, two random units of your fraction will appear near it to help you.
Thanks for the feedback! But the beacons would have to be more than a single use if it’s just a couple of units. That’s why I proposed the army reinforcements so that the single use is worth it.
To be honest I really like the idea of being able to summon heroes from the inn perhaps other inn units too, like dunedain archers but also dunedain swordsman etc.

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mChiron
Posts: 6

Re: Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

Post by mChiron » Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:57 pm

As for the beacon it could be handled like a watchtower that provides vision in a wide area (see Starcraft II).
Map vision is very important for deflecting incoming harassments and spot hostile army movements.
This version would also be easier to balance, i think.

The only downside would be the lore incompatibility :(

Kumquatwhat
Posts: 7
Location: United States

Re: Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

Post by Kumquatwhat » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:07 pm

WerewolfMoonHunter wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:32 am
2.Inns- here I must disagree with you. I mean okay, you have a point that special units from the inns isn't the most logical thing in game but I also like when units go out from inn. So I propuse small changes here. One, adding to that possibility to recruit special hero from the inn (I even started working at ideas for them). Two, still recruting new units from the inn but... it should be like units which you really would find in the inn.
Was going to reply something along the lines of your first idea but I can see it was already counter-proposed. I would say that, for each map which has an inn, that has a special hero associated with it that can only be recruited by capturing the inn. If that faction loses the inn, that hero can't regenerate? Starts to lose health? Something to encourage you to not just grab the hero and dash off into the sunset. But getting a hero from the inn seems like a classic match.
TheGardOfIsen wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:33 pm
Marketplaces i think are nice as its a good resource boost early game but perhaps they can be upgraded with things like increased production or maybe offering command points.
...
Beacons!!! In the lotr universe beacons where used as a way to call for reinforcements.
I think maybe a good solution for point one, that also makes sense considering they are called marketplaces, is to have them boost resource gathering buildings in the vicinity? So farms, mines, whatever it is your faction uses that are near the market will produce significantly more resources. It encourages you to build in a way that improves your output but is maybe harder to defend and actually interacts with other mechanics in the game (assuming how resource production works is not being changed).

As far as beacons are concerned, I am not a fan of one time use buildings, so I would instead say that beacons give you, on a long cooldown, the ability to someone a moderate force for a cheap price. This force is on a timer though so you can't just keep them around forever, they have their own homes to go worry about...but in a pinch, you have them. Kind of like the summon units command powers that would give you units that would eventually disappear no matter what. They would pop out where the beacon is located, which itself is presumably in a centralized strategic location to make the beacon's soldiers more valuable, and then you can order them for a minute or so.

The downside is that then the beacons are almost as much of an offensive tool than a defensive one, which kind of subverts the principal of them? But I'm not sure how to solve that without just making them a buildable structure only around your fortress, and that's not as much fun imo.
mChiron wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:57 pm
As for the beacon it could be handled like a watchtower that provides vision in a wide area
I think this would be better as a cheap constructable building. An outpost sort of thing that can't really attack or defend but has a significant line of sight wherever you want it.

Or, if that seems too niche for significant use, just make it a buyable upgrade for resource buildings. It would significantly raise the defenses and line of sight capabilities of farms/mines/etc in exchange for actually spending resources on the upgrade.

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Lostir
Posts: 236

Re: Marketplaces,Inns,Beacons

Post by Lostir » Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:09 am

I think maybe a good solution for point one, that also makes sense considering they are called marketplaces, is to have them boost resource gathering buildings in the vicinity? So farms, mines, whatever it is your faction uses that are near the market will produce significantly more resources. It encourages you to build in a way that improves your output but is maybe harder to defend and actually interacts with other mechanics in the game (assuming how resource production works is not being changed).
Really like this idea.
As far as beacons are concerned, I am not a fan of one time use buildings, so I would instead say that beacons give you, on a long cooldown, the ability to someone a moderate force for a cheap price. This force is on a timer though so you can't just keep them around forever, they have their own homes to go worry about...but in a pinch, you have them. Kind of like the summon units command powers that would give you units that would eventually disappear no matter what. They would pop out where the beacon is located, which itself is presumably in a centralized strategic location to make the beacon's soldiers more valuable, and then you can order them for a minute or so.

The downside is that then the beacons are almost as much of an offensive tool than a defensive one, which kind of subverts the principal of them? But I'm not sure how to solve that without just making them a buildable structure only around your fortress, and that's not as much fun imo.
If you have to hold the beacon for a certain amount of time, before you can summon those units, you have to actively defend the beacon, because else they won't come.

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