Factions

Moderator: Solethria

stormbringer
Posts: 22

Re: Factions

Post by stormbringer » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:07 pm

I love the people that say that to have more than 6 factions makes impossible to balance the game. Now everyone is an expert in developing games.
Even 15 factions can be balanced (not saying to aim to that), it requieres more time yes, but it is possible.
I prefer to have more factions progressively without rush, in the end it will pay: a lot of variety and fun. We already have mods that prove what I am saying.

Mako
Posts: 8

Re: Factions

Post by Mako » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:16 pm

You misundertand me. I agree that is doable and harder.

I always think that 3 factions (sc2) can be really few but they can focus really good what are imrpovements.
For each faction you add it makes your works harder and harder.
I find 6 a good compromize following my experience on 2.02 multyplayer and online competitions.

Also i think they really fit well fro lore:
Elves
Men
Dws
Isengard
Mordor

Then just add another force of darkness for having 3 good vs 3 evil and imo is fine.

I also played other mods like aotr and edain that has more factions but i didn't like them fro multyplayer competition.

Even in bfme2 elves and man of the west are really similar.

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Solethria
Posts: 195

Re: Factions

Post by Solethria » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:38 pm

I agree with Mako. Yes the mods are fun because they add new content to an old game, but in my opinion they are not fit for multiplayer. They are aimed at the love of the fans for the Lord of the rings franchise (with most of them aiming for what is in the books) but by doing so they change the game out of proportion.

This project should be aimed at remastering what is a very good base game, rather than wanting to expand on it and lose touch with the original like many mods do.
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Mithril
Posts: 9

Re: Factions

Post by Mithril » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:34 am

I definitely agree that having too many factions probably wouldn't be the best thing for competitive balance. I also agree that it could go down the path of over-done mod syndrome. Some mods over-bloat the factions with so many unnecessary additional units that overlap with each other.

Ironically, the reason I advocate for splitting Men of the West into Gondor and Rohan is because of balance concerns. Men of the West are too much of an all-rounder faction, in my opinion. They have strong everything: Infantry, range, siege, the best cavalry in the game AND the most broken Spellbook power: Army of the Dead.

You could tone down the cavalry, but then you water down Rohan's identity even more than it already has been. I'd argue it's simply better to make Rohan a new faction with a strong cavalry as its core strength.

EDIT:
I forgot to add that MotW have the largest hero pool in the game, if I remember correctly? Splitting up those heroes into more manageable numbers seems fair to me.

Mako
Posts: 8

Re: Factions

Post by Mako » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:24 am

In term of balancment, what series did you play (or are you playing) of bfme2?

MakeBFMEGreatAgain
Posts: 6

Re: Factions

Post by MakeBFMEGreatAgain » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:44 am

It is nonsense to merge Gondor and Rohan just for the sake of them being Men. Gameplay-wise, it makes as little sense as merging Dwarves and Elves.
This is my last post on the matter as I have already expressed clearly my opinion in the first page, but I believe this would be a big mistake. The Edain team takes the greatest interest in balance and not only have they split Men, but they have also split Elves. Sure, it will require more time. Personally, I am willing to wait.

PurrPurr
Posts: 2

Re: Factions

Post by PurrPurr » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:41 am

As some stated before me, i also think that starting with 6 factions is the way to go. Sure, having more factions sounds nice and good, but more content doesnt equal better game. Id rather have a really balanced and fleshed out game with 6 factions, than 8 or 9 factions with bad balancing and useless/overlapping units. For me, its like a depth over range argument and i pick depth over range in almost every instance. Depth is the thing that keeps the community alive and the game interesting in a long term. So instead of using the resources to produce a wide range of factions and units, i think its better to use said resources to give the gameplay depth and balance with less factions and units.

Also, you can always add stuff later on, when the bulk of the work is finished. I think developer wise its more rewarding to get something done and ready to publish, where you can expand later on, than to be caught up in an never ending programming wheel.
Last edited by PurrPurr on Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lostir
Posts: 127

Re: Factions

Post by Lostir » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:42 am

If the good factions are split by races, why not do the same thing for the evil ones?
Thus having Evil Men, Orcs and Wild Monsters.
Saruman has anyway just been a puppet of Sauron, so it makes sense to group those to up in a faction which focusses on orcs/goblins/uruks. It would be a faction focused on breeding, thus constantly improving your weak troops, and on the other hand haffing mighty debuffs to weaken the enemies. Also, it would spare us of these nonsensical heroes like Sharku and Lurtz, whose only glory was to be killed by Aragorn.

And for the Wild Monsters we could have a faction of a lot single but strong units, including the trolls of the north, lead by Rogash, as well as the spiders let by Kankra and the Dragons led by Drogoth and Smaug. And the Balrog could be the ring hero.

The evil man would be a faction of treachery and treason and lead armies of slaves and mercenaries into battle, but which would need to be constantly supervised by overseers and heroes or else they would defect.

PurrPurr
Posts: 2

Re: Factions

Post by PurrPurr » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:51 am

Lostir wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:42 am
If the good factions are split by races, why not do the same thing for the evil ones?
Thus having Evil Men, Orcs and Wild Monsters.
Saruman has anyway just been a puppet of Sauron, so it makes sense to group those to up in a faction which focusses on orcs/goblins/uruks. It would be a faction focused on breeding, thus constantly improving your weak troops, and on the other hand haffing mighty debuffs to weaken the enemies. Also, it would spare us of these nonsensical heroes like Sharku and Lurtz, whose only glory was to be killed by Aragorn.

And for the Wild Monsters we could have a faction of a lot single but strong units, including the trolls of the north, lead by Rogash, as well as the spiders let by Kankra and the Dragons led by Drogoth and Smaug. And the Balrog could be the ring hero.

The evil man would be a faction of treachery and treason and lead armies of slaves and mercenaries into battle, but which would need to be constantly supervised by overseers and heroes or else they would defect.
I dislike the idea of a race with strong single units, it would be hard to balance i imagine. What i really like tho, is the idea of slave armies with overseers. It would be an interesting mechanic.
All in all i think your idea of splitting the evil forces up into race fations with unique and new mechanics is too far from the original game, and it would consume a lot more time to develop those new mechanics and balance them out.

stormbringer
Posts: 22

Re: Factions

Post by stormbringer » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:54 pm

I give up.
It seems the days of having fun in games are long gone, now everything is about "competitive multiplayer" just for the sake of competitiveness

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