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Re: Factions

Post by Lostir » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:02 am

I believe the most important thing about factions is that each of them should be different enough from the others to offer a clear and unique gameplay style with strengthes and weaknesses, without having such big weaknesses that it will be an autoloss against certain factions.

So as long as there are unique ideas for new faction gameplay I have no problem with it, but I don't factions too be too similar and being just a reskin of each other.

Elves and Men always felt pretty much the same to me gameplay wise except some slight differences.

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Re: Factions

Post by rezanajafi94 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:27 pm

hey guys, how can i test the new version ? i wanna be a beta tester

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Re: Factions

Post by hidanio » Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:33 pm

Hello guys. I think that game needs subfraction to some fraction or doctrines like in Company of Heroes (spells/buildings). It can help us to increase game variability and realize more game mechanics.

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Re: Factions

Post by Jet Xot » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:06 pm

Lostir wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:02 am
I believe the most important thing about factions is that each of them should be different enough from the others to offer a clear and unique gameplay style with strengthes and weaknesses, without having such big weaknesses that it will be an autoloss against certain factions.

So as long as there are unique ideas for new faction gameplay I have no problem with it, but I don't factions too be too similar and being just a reskin of each other.

Elves and Men always felt pretty much the same to me gameplay wise except some slight differences.
I totally agree with you.

If we want to address the factions through the lore, it's impossible.

I think we have three very clear doubts:

-Elves. Yes, Mirkwood, Rivendell and Lorien are different, but they are based mostly on archers (maybe Rivendell is more focused on infantry, but it's not important). They focus mostly on archers, few units and elite. The lore is moderately justified, because they are the same race, but in terms of gameplay it is 100% justified that they are merged.

-Men. The lore tells us that they can be two separate factions, but the gameplay, in part, prevents it. Rohan may be cavalry based but he has nothing more remarkable. Rohan has little variety of units to be a faction of his own. The easy solution is to put "Edoras infantry", "Helm pikes", "west fold archers"...Don't you think it's too shabby? and how you balance Rohirrim? on one hand it has to be the BEST cavalry unit, but it also has to be the only one. But you can also spam it because in Rohan there are only Rohirrims... Shall we put in a cavalry unit for the early game? No, I don't like it and I don't think it's a good idea. Ah! And they would also have few justified heroes.
A separate topic is Gondor. They can exist without Rohan (Dol Amroth cavalry).
I don't think there is a totally valid argument for either opinion. But my opinion is that they should be merged.
The solution that could satisfy everyone, perhaps, is the design of the faction, with more references to Rohan in the architecture.

-Mordor. In Lore's terms it's 100% justified. But in terms of gameplay Mordor has a problem that other factions don't have: Too many options. Trolls, orc spam, Nazgul on horseback, Nazgul flying, elite archers, cheap cavalry, mumakils, good catapults, two more types of infantry... many options and some of them are never useful!
My idea and my desire would be to separate Mordor, and make a new faction:

Corrupted men. A mix between Umbar, Harad and Ruhn (and if we want to go deeper, Black Numenoreans). The lore agrees 100%, and aesthetically they are very differentiated.

But the important thing, it can have a different gameplay than the others. Light cavalry, good archers, corsairs... but above all Mumakils. A new faction with a new gameplay that will play around an elite unit, in the mid-game and Late-game, that will be cavalry and siege at the same time, the Mumakil. And then Khamul as their main hero (according to the lore this Nazgul was from the east). Who doesn't like playing with Mumakils?

Mordor has plenty of options to be a great faction on its own, and there are ideas to replace corrupt men.

It is also true that right now the team has to focus on other things much more important. But if all goes well and they want to make one last faction (Angmar), they could change it to Corrupt Men. (Angmar was, in my opinion, a big mistake)

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Re: Factions

Post by MakeBFMEGreatAgain » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:44 pm

Rohan is a standalone faction in Edain Mod, the faction is both unique and strong (actually considered the strongest at the moment).
All your worries concerning them are taken care of in the mod. You should try it.

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Re: Factions

Post by Moton » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:56 am

I think the most effective way to make the game as diverse as possible would be to introduce doctrines within the factions with maybe one or two sepcial units and a unique ultimate spell per doctrine. Every major faction (Men, Isengard ,mordor etc) has their own basic army setup, Mordor with their orcs and Mountain trolls and so on.

So you could have the major faction Men with "Gondor", "Rohan" and "dunedain" or something as doctrine wich unlocks specific lore based units within each doctrine. You could have the major faction Mordor with "Mount Doom" and their Nazgûls, "Harads" and their Mûmakil and harad infantary as special unit and so on. I hope I get my point through :D

This way you can have huge variation on the games with as little work as possible. You dont need special buildings or animate a whole new set of army for each doctrine. Maybe you would need one special building for some of the doctrines but that's alot easier to do than a whole seperate faction.

To make it clear, you first chose a major faction (Men/Mordor/Isengard etc) in the lobby and then ingame you chose your doctrine (Gondor/Mount Doom/Orthanc) last one being an example of an Isengard doctrine. When you've chosen your doctrine you cant change it and you unluck its special units, buildings and spells.

Edit: Gave a few examples. Edit: Rewrote it because even I could'nt understand what I wrote first. Edit: I was an idiot when I did this so I added some clarification.

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Re: Factions

Post by Trasius » Fri May 08, 2020 9:24 am

Hi all, first of all thanks to your impressive work and efforts invested in the game that we have always deserved
I'd like to see the six original factions of BFME2 but with the distinction of mens of Rohan and Gondor, I think that books and films offers enough material to make 2 different and complete factions like we saw in BFME1. All the best

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Re: Factions

Post by Ravager » Tue May 12, 2020 4:34 am

Some Goblin changes that I would personallly like to see to make it seem more like the movies

In order of preference
-Get ride of the spider riders, switch them with smaller warg riders that (Wargs from the hobbit film would seem fitting)
-Make the King of the Goblins ride a warg not a spider.
-Give ability for Goblins to scale walls (That makes up for some of the lack of more powerful units)
-Get rid of giants, having cave trolls being able to throw stones like in BFME1 works fine as artillery.
-Get rid of drakes
-Get rid of half troll-marauders (That's what cave trolls are for)

Other ideas for units
-Cave troll with a long spear (able to reach over the frontline and act as a support)
-2 Goblin Drummers with giant drum (Similar to Mordor Drummer Troll) https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Mo ... Commanders
-Goblin shaman (Support) https://www.flickr.com/photos/62061796@N05/5775136987

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Re: Factions

Post by Esparado87 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:58 pm

6 factions or else it will take WAY too long time and please don't add Angmar as a main faction, Angmar was long gone (except some ruins) by the time of the war of the ring.
Angmar in rotwk was non canon anyway (dark dunedain really?)
The expansion in it self took only 6 months to be made and it was just something EA made to get money for command & conquer 3.

Anyways...the main problem with the men faction that combines Gondor and Rohan, with them having completely different architecture and gameplay should be fixed somehow.

For that, I kinda have a solution.

All factions can only have 1 normal fortress and max 3 strongholds.
Each faction has 3 different types of strongholds to build:

Gondor (Heavy Infantry Hero Unit, Fiefdom Units).
Rohan (Multi-function Cavalry Hero Unit, Cheaper Structures (all buildings become wooden and brown).
Dol Amroth (Heavy Cavalry Hero Unit, Cheaper Cavalry).

Rivendell (Heavy Infantry Hero Unit, Economy).
Lothlorien (Strong Archers Hero Unit, Healing).
Woodland Realm (Multi-function Cavalry Hero Unit, Ambush Tactics).

Erebor (Heavy Infantry Hero Unit, Cheaper Structures).
Iron Hills (Heavy Cavalry Hero Unit, Cheaper Siege Units).
Dale (Strong Archers Hero Unit, Cheaper/Faster Dale units).

Dol Guldur (Infantry/Sorcery Hero Unit, Necromancy, Spiders).
Rhun (Heavy Infantry Hero Unit, Cheaper Structures).
Harad (Heavy Cavalry Hero Unit, Cheaper Monsters (including Mumakil).

Isengard (Siege Hero Unit, Cheaper Siege Units).
Orthanc (Heavy Infantry Hero Unit, Cheaper Structures).
Dunland (Spam, Heavy Cavalry Hero Unit).

Misty Mountains:
Gundabad (Heavy Infantry Hero Unit, Cheaper Infantry).
Moria (Spam, Multi-function Cavalry Hero Unit).
Angmar (Infantry/Sorcery Hero Unit, Debuff).

The strongholds have some active and passive abilities that reflect the gameplay of the sub-faction and you can also build special hero units from sub-faction (max 1 battalion from each stronghold).
Like if you want to play as only Rohan, you only build Rohan strongholds.
If you want to play all sub-faction in faction, you build 1 stronghold of each type.

Strongholds have less health and no build plots compared to fortresses.

Edit: Got inspiration from Age of the ring mod and a bit from Edain mod.
Last edited by Esparado87 on Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Factions

Post by Kimarous » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:57 pm

I do think replicating the original six factions as a baseline is a very good idea. I also support the future inclusion of Angmar, both from an aesthetic and gameplay reason. I do not support the faction's exclusion for quote-unquote "lore" reasons - it's a multiplayer game where you can team up Mordor with Elves, pit Legolas against Gimli in pitched battle, and so forth; how is that any less lore-breaking than the inclusion of a faction destroyed centuries ago?

Regarding the point of faction-splitting Men of the West into Gondor & Rohan, I think this is a goal that can be reached at a later time, the Rohan aspects of "Men of the West" redone as Gondor units that function identical in gameplay, if not in aesthetics. With that in mind, this will likely impact the spellbook of the Men of the West / "Gondor" faction to keep with the thematic spellbooks the team is planning to implement (eg. Ent allies for Rohan, Eagle allies for Gondor). The issue is more building Rohan from basically the ground up, minus several heroes and a pair of baseline units. Possible in the future, I feel, but not something priority for the original release.

With regard to the Goblins, I'd personally like the existing Moria aesthetic (one I personally enjoy) to remain intact and a future faction, possibly titled "Gundabad" or "Dol Guldur", should receive the Hobbit film aesthetics, their own unique units and spells, etc. As for the potential argument of "what about the Gundabad orcs in Angmar" question, I'd rather Angmar rename their Gundabad orcs as simply "Angmar" orcs to differentiate the groups.

I'm not opposed to the creation of some kind of "Men of the East" faction that focuses on the forces of Harad & Rhun without the Mordor elements, if mainly because I think the Haradrim Palace and Mumakil Pen aesthetically clash with the rest of the Mordor faction, though this raises a big question of "How would the exclusion of the Mumakil (and specifically the Mumakil; the Haradrim Palace units might be orc-reskinned) affect Mordor's gameplay?" Would both have Mumakhil but each have alternate aesthetics? I don't know the answer to this question, but as things currently stand, it's idle speculation on something WAY further down the line.

As a not-quite-joke idea, I wouldn't mind seeing a dedicated Shire faction that has a primarily Hobbit focus (huge Hobbit-hole fortress with a Party Tree centrepiece; Hobbit Hole resource buildings; Farmer-based spear-units, rock-throwing ranged units, pony-riding cavalry, etc.) save for a "Big Folk Inn" where Dunedain and other human-sized Shire allies can be recruited, a unique spellbook (eg. Firework Dragon for late-book), the Hobbit heroes and Gandalf the Grey, you get the idea. Absolutely no idea if anyone else likes the idea, but picturing it brings a smile to my face.

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