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Noob (secret pro) question

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:05 pm
by Trylle
Hi BFME Team

I have played games all my life, even pro in the early zeroes. But today I just want to sit and chill with my game; maybe even install a couple of mods (Civ V style). Which means I am not like the rest of the guys around here. I know that, so my suggestion is just a suggestion. The only thing I hope for is to be heard out.

1) Are we going to have the same "feel" of HEROIC hero units as in the original game, ie. they were difficult to kill, and Rohan could survive on heroes alone, OR are you moving for herounits being more as a support to army units, ie. hero units are easier to kill ?
- I would desperately plea for heroic units that are difficult to kill. I know the competitive multiplayer jocks are gonna scream out loud (I know, I used to be all about balance, no imba, no noob units, etc.), but the tone and feel of LotR was that the ringheroes are truly mighty, and thats what I like about the original BFME; I have absolutely no interest sitting doing isometric supermicro allout ressourceplanning fiddlelifut, if I want that real world feel, I go to Age of Empires 2 Definitive edition (AoE 2, they propably do it best these days) - BFME was about being epic, not f*cking rts grinding.

2) Back in the days buildings were very easy to take down, even fortresses. I get it the developers didnt want a defensive game, they wanted action. But let me say that there is a reason why AoE 2 in all its variants has the castle as the defining building in strategic choices. The castle is armour TOUGH, extreme HP, and used as an offensive front point to set the battlefront. The Microsoft developers knew their history, castles were paramount in medieval military understanding. Fun fact, defense has historically been stronger than offense all the way up to WWII (generally speaking).
- So my hope is that buildings, or at least one, just one lategame tier building is actually gonna hold that pass !

3) You posted the below link, and thats actually what prompted me to make this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv5jSBsgxnY
I am so pleased that you want to spell out the difference of the factions, this is exactly what a Tolkien fan such as myself want. I want to feel immersed in the World of Middle-Earth. I only have one small worry, and that is that this distinctiveness is graphics only.
- I pray that there is a distinctive feel to the different units. I mean look at Dota, they got a very tight set of rules, and repetitive arena setting, its all set up to be repetitively boring, but oh boy, do the 100+ heroes have their own feel to them. The basic game setting is designed to be all still and stale, but that one unit you care about (your hero), that one has everything, its own progress, story, distinct style, sounds, background, etc. In short, its own feel.

4) I never donate online.
- But I do so like BFME, so I would like to donate to you guys; but I have absolutely no idea how to do it. Could you post a link that holds me in my tiny useless hand while I (for the first time ever) give you some monies ?

Re: Noob (secret pro) question

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:35 am
by Lostir
As noone else has answered yet, I will give it a try. And to make it clear I'm just another forum user.

First of all welcome to the forum.

1) Reforged seems to focus a lot on multiplayer (at least for now) and really strong heroes aren't something that is really popular there, because from a certain point really strong heroes just tend to steamroll anything. BfME1 had a lot less heroes for everything but Rohan and Rihan was a lot more special than any faction in BfME2.
So I don't expect it.

2) The same as above. Turtling gameplay is extremly unhealthy in BfME2, because the game lacks tools to really punish it.

3) That is something I'm really curious about, what haven't got any information about it yet either. Will the units be unique each and have their distinct spaces and how different will each faction play. Only as much as in BfME2 or as much as in BfME1? But I doubt that the game will feature any similar mechanics to DotA. For that it are far too much different genres.

4) You can offer support over here: https://bfmereforged.org/support-us/


One a different note, if you like mods, I would recommend you to Edain. It is for Return of the Witchking but has implemented back the BfME1 base style such that it has real fortresses for most factions and a lot more defense and siege options. Also one of the main goals is to make everything unique (factions, units, heroes, ...), which can really be felt. Heroes are a lot more unique and specialized, and some have even level up quests.

Re: Noob (secret pro) question

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:43 pm
by Feanor
I'm not part of the dev team, i'm just a fan of Tolkien's work and RTS games.
So I'll answer from my experience and what I expect from BFME reforged.
RTS are about building an economy and invest your resources to produce the right units to defeat your enemy.
That leads to one of the essential questions of RTS games: which are the right units I must produce to defeat my opponent?, which leads to another defining question "what is my opponent doing and what units is he producing?"
Making heroes (and buildings) too powerful, makes those essential questions meaningless. It destroys the essence of an RTS game and transforms it into something more like a MOBA, in which you are basically pushing with your hero (not your army) to defeat your opponents "Nexus".
I don't want that for BFME.
In fact, I wish I had the option (maybe a game mode) to play without heroes. That would be pure RTS, more like Starcraft 2 than Warcraft 3. I wish there were more regular units in BFME with special abilities, like Protoss Sentries or High Templars, whose abilities had a huge impact on the fights. Not just the heroes. Where you could train assassins, mages, druids, shamans, necromancers, healers, maybe something even in the line of paladins and death knights.
But I know that it isn't going to happen. The dev team loves the original game too much and I feel they are afraid of changing the original design.

Re: Noob (secret pro) question

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:17 pm
by Trylle
Lostir wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:35 am
As noone else has answered yet, I will give it a try. And to make it clear I'm just another forum user.

First of all welcome to the forum.

1) Reforged seems to focus a lot on multiplayer (at least for now) and really strong heroes aren't something that is really popular there, because from a certain point really strong heroes just tend to steamroll anything. BfME1 had a lot less heroes for everything but Rohan and Rihan was a lot more special than any faction in BfME2.
So I don't expect it.

2) The same as above. Turtling gameplay is extremly unhealthy in BfME2, because the game lacks tools to really punish it.

3) That is something I'm really curious about, what haven't got any information about it yet either. Will the units be unique each and have their distinct spaces and how different will each faction play. Only as much as in BfME2 or as much as in BfME1? But I doubt that the game will feature any similar mechanics to DotA. For that it are far too much different genres.

4) You can offer support over here: https://bfmereforged.org/support-us/


One a different note, if you like mods, I would recommend you to Edain. It is for Return of the Witchking but has implemented back the BfME1 base style such that it has real fortresses for most factions and a lot more defense and siege options. Also one of the main goals is to make everything unique (factions, units, heroes, ...), which can really be felt. Heroes are a lot more unique and specialized, and some have even level up quests.

...You might find it preposterous when I say this, but BFME is not really designed to be for competitve players, its supposed to be epic. Other games are far more suitable for gamers who need that "kick" in their life.
But okay, I get it, If the the player base is mainly consisting of competitive players, then of course the devs should adhere to that. I am just hoping that we can get modding or perhaps on/off function on overpowered units for that pesky competitive gameplay.

Regarding the Edain mod .......WOOOW, maybe thats all I need. Thank you so much for directing this to my intention. Your'e a treasure.

*Bowing out*

Re: Noob (secret pro) question

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:23 pm
by Trylle
Feanor wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:43 pm
I'm not part of the dev team, i'm just a fan of Tolkien's work and RTS games.
So I'll answer from my experience and what I expect from BFME reforged.
RTS are about building an economy and invest your resources to produce the right units to defeat your enemy.
That leads to one of the essential questions of RTS games: which are the right units I must produce to defeat my opponent?, which leads to another defining question "what is my opponent doing and what units is he producing?"
Making heroes (and buildings) too powerful, makes those essential questions meaningless. It destroys the essence of an RTS game and transforms it into something more like a MOBA, in which you are basically pushing with your hero (not your army) to defeat your opponents "Nexus".
I don't want that for BFME.
In fact, I wish I had the option (maybe a game mode) to play without heroes. That would be pure RTS, more like Starcraft 2 than Warcraft 3. I wish there were more regular units in BFME with special abilities, like Protoss Sentries or High Templars, whose abilities had a huge impact on the fights. Not just the heroes. Where you could train assassins, mages, druids, shamans, necromancers, healers, maybe something even in the line of paladins and death knights.
But I know that it isn't going to happen. The dev team loves the original game too much and I feel they are afraid of changing the original design.

As I mentioned in an earlier post. BFME is not really designed to be a great game for competitive play, its designed to be epic; there are simply way too many flaws in its original gamedesign to really appeal to pro competitive gamers, but as I also mentioned earlier, if that is what the player base wants, then that is what the devs should focus on (besides their own love and understanding on how it should be "redesigned").
...All that being said, I do believe you are right in your assesment, and I can only hope the devs will take into consideration your suggestion on making certain functions optional. So if a dev is reading this, could we maybe have the option to turn on/off of specific units that can ruin competitive gameplay, and then let us old gamers sit and play with powerunits and turtle in peace :D